It's been a little over 6 weeks since we first found out. For me that time has flown by...not so much for Sara. Apparently being pregnant makes every day drag on in an endless eternity of discomfort and pain. OK, that may be a bit hyperbolic, but I'm pretty sure it seems to be going a lot faster for me than it is for her.
We've made it through the big July 4 camping weekend, a couple of big family get togethers, and a week in Boston with her sisters. So far, no slips, which is pretty amazing. With so many people we know having babies, and the reality of it something we talk about every day, I'm amazed that neither of us has let it slip out, absentmindedly, in a conversation yet.
Once you all find out, I hope you don't mind that we waited so long to tell.
Out planned "coming out" event is just a month away now. That time will be over before I know it. Work is kicking into high gear as we prepare for the new school year. Daily training sessions start next Monday and I've still got 3 or 4 weeks of catch up work from last year in my queue. No rest for me until Labor Day, which may be a good thing. The more focused I am on work, the less time I spend thinking about the "shrimp" (the official name now bestowed upon our offspring) during the work day. The less time I spend thinking about the shrimp, the less likely I am to spill the beans without meaning to. :)
Back to my poor dear wife...
I'm surprised she didn't just blurt it out while we were in Boston, especially the first couple of days when she was trying to keep up with her sisters. They were pretty active during the day, out and about, shopping and doing lots of walking. I'm learning that lots of activity isn't something most pregnant women enjoy. She was completely pooped by the end of the first day. She hung on (and out) as long as she could before succumbing to "shrimp exhaustion." So Sue and Felicia, now you now, your big sister was feeling sluggish for a reason.
The trip to Boston helped me gain some perspective, too. It was probably the last big trip event we'll do as just a couple for another 20 years, maybe more. As we did our sight-seeing I got the warm fuzzies thinking about how in the near future, these types of things will be "family" events, not just the two of us.
Our first official appointment with the doctor here at home is coming up in two days. I think we're both a little anxious and curious about what's going to happen. We had our last appointment, and confirmation of the pregnancy, in Ann Arbor over a month ago. Even with everything we've been reading about the process, it feels like we still don't know what to expect. Going to a doctor here definitely makes it seem more real (not that it hasn't already felt real, it just MORE real now.)
September 12 feels like it's right around the corner....for one of us anyway.
I started this blog the day Sara and I found out we were going to be parents. Now, she and Miranda are waiting for me on the other side. These are my thoughts, letters, and the memories I'll keep until we meet again.
Monday, August 2, 2010
Thursday, July 8, 2010
The times, they are a changin'
We may have experienced our first craving (does it bother you if I refer to "us" even when I'm really just talking about her?). As Sara was getting ready for bed the other night she commented that she felt hungry and wanted a bologna sandwich with mustard. We'll classify this as a craving for 2 reasons:
- Sara would normally choose death over a bologna sandwich.
- If she did choose a bologna sandwich, the last thing she'd want on it is mustard. Mustard is an ingredient she'll cook with, but to put it on food is not something she does often, if ever.
This may have been a one time thing. Last night, I mentioned bologna sandwiches with mustard as an option for dinner and she was pretty clear in letting me know that that no longer held any appeal.
I've been doing a lot of reading about pregnancy (I was told it was my job to be the designated researcher) and this really is an amazing process. We were blown away that we could see the heart beat so early. As of today our baby is almost half an inch long, and it looks like it grows about a half an inch per week from here on out. The next doctors appointment is August 4. I'm anticipating it, and find myself counting down days to specific points on the timeline on a pretty regular basis.
Other things that keep creeping through my head tend to be a little more selfish. Things like watching TV without being interrupted (or just watching TV), snuggling up in the morning, making last minute plans to go out, etc. are all lifestyle things that have days which are numbered. Sara and I have 14 years of togetherness that's about to be shaken to its core. I'm not anticipating this in a bad way, just anxious about how big of a change it will be for two people who have not had to share themselves with anyone but each other to now have to devote a significant amount of energy and resources to another person. That sounds a lot worse than I mean it to be (and I've tried re-writing it a dozen times.) I guess that's why God gives us 9 months to figure it out and get used to things.
Still, I can't help feel like there are lots of positives to having waited so long to have kids as well. Sara and I have an identity as a couple that's not bound up in other things or people..for now. We have 14 years of just being ourselves and I feel like we've built a pretty solid foundation as far as who we are as people and as a couple. I think some couples probably don't get to experience the relationship we have now until they finally get their kids out of the house. That's not to say I think people who get married and have kids right away are making mistakes, I think they just experience some of life's pleasures in a different chronological order than we have. Our feeling is that we know what's waiting on the other side of raising a family, so there won't be too many surprises when we get there. How's that for thinking ahead? :) It's likely I'll be in my early 60's before it's back to just being the two of us.
A big challenge for me, even just 3 weeks in, is keeping this news a secret. Each day it becomes more real for me, but the people around me have no idea. The more Sara and I talk about things at home, the more self-censoring I find myself having to do in conversations at work, especially when planning out training sessions and other items for the next school year. I spent yesterday morning in a planning session. I know I'm going to be taking some time off work in February/March, but it's hard to come up with reasons not to schedule training for those weeks without having a "why." So far people haven't pushed me for the why, let's hope it stays that way for at least another 7 weeks.
A big challenge for me, even just 3 weeks in, is keeping this news a secret. Each day it becomes more real for me, but the people around me have no idea. The more Sara and I talk about things at home, the more self-censoring I find myself having to do in conversations at work, especially when planning out training sessions and other items for the next school year. I spent yesterday morning in a planning session. I know I'm going to be taking some time off work in February/March, but it's hard to come up with reasons not to schedule training for those weeks without having a "why." So far people haven't pushed me for the why, let's hope it stays that way for at least another 7 weeks.
Tuesday, July 6, 2010
Cat's still in the bag
We wrapped up our 4th of July successfully. Four straight days spent with close family and friends, and we managed to get through it without letting our little secret slip out. In the end, it wasn't as hard as I had thought it might be. Speaking for myself, it was mostly just watching what I said and being careful not to tip my hand, especially during conversations about "the future."
We've decided that we're going to try not telling anyone until September. The goal is to first tell our parents on Grandparents Day (September 12 for those of you who keep track of these things) and follow up with our family and friends soon after. We'll see if we can make it. :)
We know that the reaction of most people will probably be pure shock. We'll have celebrated our 14th anniversary prior to telling people. At this point most of our friends and family have probably just assumed having kids was something we'd never do.
We've always wanted a family, the sticking point's just been getting it started. We weren't sure if we'd even be able to have our own kids, so we'd talk about adoption periodically, but we never put any plans in motion (life's what happens while you're making plans, right.) I guess we just reached a point where the desire to try outgrew the fear of trying. It's been a long road since we made that decision, and doubt has been an ever growing obstacle, so we're just as shocked as you are :)
September 12 seems like both an eternity away and like it's right around the corner. From one perspective it's 10 weeks away, over two months! That seems like a long time to wait and tell anyone. From another perspective it seem's like it's going to fly by. We have "events" taking place the next 4 weekends in a row, and my work schedule is going to keep me super busy well into the start of September. August will be here before you know it, and for me it's going to fly by (even if it is one day at a time.)
One of my worries at this point is that I'll end up missing out on some of the "doctory" stuff that will happen between now and the end of the first trimester. Starting August 9, my schedule is jam packed with training events right up until Labor Day weekend. Between now and August 9 I have a lot of work to do getting ready for that training. Sara hasn't scheduled anything with a local OBGYN yet (last trip to IVF Michigan was the day before we went on vacation) so I'll just have to wait and see when things get scheduled. They did finally hire me a co-worker to help with the work load, but he just officially started on July 1, and has minimal experience right now. We have 15 work days where we'll both be at work between now and August 9 and I've got to get him trained to the point where he can lead training on his own. Like I said, each day will probably seem long, but they are going to fly by at the same time.
Sunday, July 4, 2010
Wouldn't it be nice...
Now that we're into "full blown acknowledgement" mode, but still in "our little secret" mode, too, we find ourselves both relishing things that will be our last "just the two of us" moments as well as thinking forward to "what will this be like with a baby?"
We're camping this weekend, the annual 4th of July camping trip we take every year, to Somerset Beach Campground, with anyone from my mom's family who can make it. If everyone came, we'd have 34 people. For various reasons we usually hold steady at about 25. What makes this year different is that there will be at least 4 new babies (God willing) eligible to make their first 4th of July camping trip next summer. Having babies at camp is nothing new, we've been through it 4 times in the past few years now. However, having OUR new baby at camp is a somewhat terrifying (pleasantly terrifying) thought.
Of course, everyone but Sara and me only knows about the "other" three babies. At times, it's been difficult keeping that secret. In the course of conversation, someone will mention the three new babies next year, and I find myself holding back a "no, four." Other times, it's hard not to bring it into the conversation. In thinking ahead to what camping will be like with a 4 month old baby, we'd like to change lots next year so that we're not so close to the nightly campfire noise, but it's hard to express that without expressing the why. Instead I probably just come across as a crotchety old fart (which, admittedly, I am becoming.)
One of the big challenges this year has been trying to avoid the "pregnant" conversations. My cousin is expecting her second later this year, and her brother's wife is expecting their first in just a few months. They have both been camping with us and my other cousin, who didn't make it this year, is expecting his first in just a few short weeks. As I've mentioned before, Sara and I have both typically shied away from the "here's what my pregnancy/delivery was like" conversations. In a setting like this it can be kind of funny to watch and see how quickly either of us can get up and move away, without it looking too obvious, when such a conversation starts up. Bless you all for caring and sharing, but we really want to experience as much of this as possible without having any preconceived notions or expectations. We're just not at a point where hearing other people's stories (horror, funny, or otherwise) is helpful for either of us. A time may come when it is, but just not yet.
It's been a fun four days, knowing something that everyone else doesn't know, and looking forward to a completely new experience next year. No matter what, it's is sure to be different. :)
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
One, two, three strikes....
Today was the day! We visited the IVF Michigan in Ann Arbor for our last visit with Dr. Ayers; but, most importantly for an ultrasound to confirm what we've known/suspected for the past 11 days...it's a baby.
Of course, we knew it was going to be a baby, despite the dreams Sara has been having about having puppies (can I get a LOL?) But we've had our worries. When you have difficulty getting pregnant, sometimes it can feel like things are bound to go wrong, even when they're going right. You try and fail. You try and fail. When something good happens, acceptance isn't as easy as you'd think it would be, regardless of how happy you may be.
Anywho, our fears/concern/anxieties/worries have been alleviated (at least until the next round kick in.) According to the doctor everything seems to be good and he thinks we'll have a (one) baby sometime between February 14 and February 28.
Thursday, June 24, 2010
Two down, one to go....
The reality of things is still setting in.
Positive home pregnancy test...check!
Positive blood test...check!
Trip to the doctors office...next week.....
An overall feeling of excitement has started to creep in, but I think we're both still waiting for that final "check" before we finally feel like this is for real and happening. It's not that we doubt the results of the first 2 test, and it's not that we're not happy. We're extremely happy, just reserved in that happiness.
That reservation is probably a result of the process and some of what we've been through in trying to get here. We first started this process almost 16 months ago. For those of you who get pregnant just at the thought of having a baby, we're a little jealous. We've fallen into the category of those who need a little pharmaceutical help in this area. The frustrating part for us was knowing going into it that this was our most likely reality, but it didn't feel like we could convince the doctors of it. They were determined that we should just let nature take it's course and THEN if nothing happened they'd start checking into things. I guess that's fine for most people, but we're not most people and, without going into the details, we had some insight that said there might be some extra challenges to overcome. It took us 13+ years to get to the point of really wanting this to happen. Having to wait almost a year and a half, and endure the doctors visits, takes some of the shine off the apple.
One of the hardest parts has been watching other people "get it right." Since we started trying:
One of the hardest parts has been watching other people "get it right." Since we started trying:
- one of my cousins had a baby about 1 month into our process
- my brother and his wife had their 3rd child about 5 months into our process
- another of my cousins announced their pregnancy about 8 months into our process
- two more of my cousins announced their pregnancies about 11 months into our process, one a first timer, one on her 2nd
- one of my wife's cousins announced her 2nd about a month ago
We're really happy for all of these people, honestly, but I'd be lying if I told you we weren't jealous and frustrated watching other family and friends enjoy the experience we've been longing to have ourselves.
With this in mind, we hope you'll all understand why we didn't rush right out and tell everyone. Add into the mix that we're both first borns and we both want to go through this process as a couple, without a lot of preconceived (no pun intended) notions about what to expect.
We're less than a week in, fully expecting that this will be our happy little secret for at least a few months.
Monday, June 21, 2010
Timing is everything...
Ironically, yesterday was Father's Day. :)
Less than 24 hours after finding out that fatherhood seems to be impending, I had to leave my beautiful bride, Sara, for a 3 day conference. On my way out of town I stopped by Culver's to grab some lunch via the drive through. When I pulled up to the window to pay and get my grub, the cashier asked if I was a father...I'm pretty sure she must have thought I was mentally challenged based on the look that was probably on my face and the way I fumbled with my response, "uhhh....huh?....no, not yet anyway....uhhhhh." Apparently they were giving away free frozen custard to fathers. :)
I was expecting some type of euphoria to have set in by now, but mostly I find myself in a state of disbelief. Can this really be happening? Will that euphoric feeling ever arrive? Mostly I'm starting to feel more nervous at the prospect of being a father.
Saturday, June 19, 2010
Two pink lines....
I'm not going to lie, I'm still in shock.
After 16 months of trying, we finally got two pink lines on a pregnancy test. We're both happy, but I honestly think we're both in shock. At this point, you really almost feel relief more than anything, I'm sure other emotions will flood in over the next few days, but tonight it's enough to cuddle up together, sleep sweetly, and hope for the best.
Friday, June 18, 2010
Beginnings...
Every story has a beginning, even ones that don’t have a happily ever after. Here is ours…
Sara and I met at Spring Arbor College in the spring of 1995. She was a freshman living on Alpha II. I was a dropout who was returning to finish my degree. We didn’t start dating right away; as a matter of fact we really didn’t get to know each other until she returned for her sophomore year. I got her attention that spring with my two beagle puppies. I had gotten them the previous fall, while living with my aunt and uncle in Muskegon, and brought them home with me when I moved back to go to college.
In the fall of 1995, I was a part time student with a steady income and lots of time to spend hanging out in the dorms. I remember sitting in the TV lounge one day and spending more time watching the girl sitting on the couch across from me than the TV. It wasn’t long before she started hanging out near me, especially if I brought my guitar to the lounge. We eventually started talking, staying up late, and getting to know each other. Homecoming was just a few weeks away and I was trying to work up the courage to ask her to go with me when, surprise, she asked me. I found out later that she only asked me after putting a letter in the mail in which she broke up with her boyfriend back home. Sucked to be him, I guess.
The Homecoming dinner was held in the college dinning commons and I was the MC for the event. Part of my duties included introducing all the couples that had gotten engaged over the past year. I didn’t know at the time that I’d be married to the love of my life less than 10 months later. That night was magical. We held hands, went for a walk, talked about “us,” and decided that “us” was a good thing to pursue. At the end of the night, I dropped her off at her dorm and kissed her. It was our first kiss. One I’ll never forget. That was October 27, 1995.
The next night we went to a dance. I’m not all that much into dancing, but every time an opportunity to slow dance came, I made sure Sara was in my arms, slowly twirling around the barn floor. I fell in love with her that night. She looked up at me with a look in her eyes that I would see again on the most special of occasions and I was sold.
We were the stereotypical annoying couple; always together, always holding hands, always smooching more than anyone wanted to see. I went to visit her family for the first time over Thanksgiving; she came up to Midland to visit my extended family. Neither one of us got scared or ran away. I remember writing in my journal that weekend that I was sure I’d found “the one.” It was less than 30 days after we had started dating, but I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with Sara. Unfortunately, she wasn’t as sure at that point. We got back from Thanksgiving break and she started to wonder if this was really what she wanted. Had she been any other girl, my persistence would have probably driven her away. Three weeks later, as we sat in my car on a cold snowy night, I gave her my ultimatum (was I really that stupid?) She needed to make up her mind about whether she wanted to be with me or not. She must have felt sorry for me, because she leaned in close and whispered, “I choose you.”
Christmas break arrived, and I got the chance to meet her mom’s extended family. A week later she had a second chance to meet mine. For the second time, we’d seen the circus and neither one bolted for the door. I’ll never forget the night, near the end of break, when we sat in the dark in her parent’s dining room talking quietly around long kisses. At one point I told her that, “If things keep going the way they’re going, I just might ask you to marry me.” She didn’t pause as she responded, “I just might say yes.”
Sara’s birthday was on January 11. She was going to be 20 years old and I thought it might be a good idea to take her out to eat to celebrate. I had no idea what the night had in store. I picked her up at the dorm and we headed out into the dark cold night to the Brandywine. We both ordered steak for dinner. We both ate a little, but spent more time holding hands and looking at each other across the table. I don’t remember what we talked about, but I’ll never forget that night. It was starting to become obvious that neither of us was going to eat much more. The conversation had dwindled to nothing. We just sat there, looking at each other, and the words just spilled out of my mouth, “How do you ask someone to marry you when you don’t have a ring?” Again, she didn’t pause before saying, “You just ask.” And so I did. I got down on one knee, took her hand in my hand, and asked, “Will you marry me?” She blushed, and her eyes had the look they had when we slow danced on that night several months before, and without missing a beat she said, “Yes!”
We realized we needed to let our families in on this. I wasn’t too worried about mine. I was going to be 24 in just a few weeks, getting married was something I knew my family would embrace, even if it hadn’t been discussed or expected. We went to my mom’s office in the morning and broke the news. There was a spontaneous party with her coworkers. I don’t remember telling my dad, but mom must have taken care of it for us. I have a vague memory of her making a phone call to him at work while we were in her office.
Telling Sara’s family was another concern. I’d only met her parents a few times. I had asked their daughter to marry me without talking to them about it first. We drove over to their house, about an hour away from school, and sat out in the driveway for a good 30 minutes trying to work up the courage to walk in and make our announcement. We finally took a deep breath, got out of the car, and made our way inside, only to find an empty house. The entire family was out picking up movies to watch from Blockbuster. By the time they returned home, we had chickened out. Pleasantries were had and we were soon watching the first feature of the night, which just happened to be Four Weddings and a Funeral. As the credits rolled, and people started getting up to stretch, grab some snacks, and get ready for the second movie, I managed to blurt out that Sara and I had something we wanted to talk to them about. I remember the room getting really quiet. I got even quieter when I told them that Sara and I wanted to get married. Sara’s brother, Daniel, finally broke the silence by asking if this was a joke because of the movie we’d just watched. I’m pretty sure her parents were mostly just shocked. We talked about marriage, and what it meant. Her dad kept asking me questions about marriage and what I thought marriage was about while trying to use allegories of boats to make his points. That night probably could have gone better, but it could have also gone much worse.
The next 8 months went by in a blur. The next thing we knew it was August 10, 1996. We stood in front of God, our families, and friends; declared our love and devotion to each other, and were pronounced man and wife. The next 14 years were filled with adventure, devotion, challenges, and even a few disappointments; but mostly they were filled with love; a love that culminated in the story that started its tale in this blog on June 19, 2010.
The picture above was taken two weeks after we found out that Miranda was on the way. We knew it would be the last camping picture with just the two of us...
Sara and I met at Spring Arbor College in the spring of 1995. She was a freshman living on Alpha II. I was a dropout who was returning to finish my degree. We didn’t start dating right away; as a matter of fact we really didn’t get to know each other until she returned for her sophomore year. I got her attention that spring with my two beagle puppies. I had gotten them the previous fall, while living with my aunt and uncle in Muskegon, and brought them home with me when I moved back to go to college.
In the fall of 1995, I was a part time student with a steady income and lots of time to spend hanging out in the dorms. I remember sitting in the TV lounge one day and spending more time watching the girl sitting on the couch across from me than the TV. It wasn’t long before she started hanging out near me, especially if I brought my guitar to the lounge. We eventually started talking, staying up late, and getting to know each other. Homecoming was just a few weeks away and I was trying to work up the courage to ask her to go with me when, surprise, she asked me. I found out later that she only asked me after putting a letter in the mail in which she broke up with her boyfriend back home. Sucked to be him, I guess.
The Homecoming dinner was held in the college dinning commons and I was the MC for the event. Part of my duties included introducing all the couples that had gotten engaged over the past year. I didn’t know at the time that I’d be married to the love of my life less than 10 months later. That night was magical. We held hands, went for a walk, talked about “us,” and decided that “us” was a good thing to pursue. At the end of the night, I dropped her off at her dorm and kissed her. It was our first kiss. One I’ll never forget. That was October 27, 1995.
The next night we went to a dance. I’m not all that much into dancing, but every time an opportunity to slow dance came, I made sure Sara was in my arms, slowly twirling around the barn floor. I fell in love with her that night. She looked up at me with a look in her eyes that I would see again on the most special of occasions and I was sold.
We were the stereotypical annoying couple; always together, always holding hands, always smooching more than anyone wanted to see. I went to visit her family for the first time over Thanksgiving; she came up to Midland to visit my extended family. Neither one of us got scared or ran away. I remember writing in my journal that weekend that I was sure I’d found “the one.” It was less than 30 days after we had started dating, but I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with Sara. Unfortunately, she wasn’t as sure at that point. We got back from Thanksgiving break and she started to wonder if this was really what she wanted. Had she been any other girl, my persistence would have probably driven her away. Three weeks later, as we sat in my car on a cold snowy night, I gave her my ultimatum (was I really that stupid?) She needed to make up her mind about whether she wanted to be with me or not. She must have felt sorry for me, because she leaned in close and whispered, “I choose you.”
Christmas break arrived, and I got the chance to meet her mom’s extended family. A week later she had a second chance to meet mine. For the second time, we’d seen the circus and neither one bolted for the door. I’ll never forget the night, near the end of break, when we sat in the dark in her parent’s dining room talking quietly around long kisses. At one point I told her that, “If things keep going the way they’re going, I just might ask you to marry me.” She didn’t pause as she responded, “I just might say yes.”
Sara’s birthday was on January 11. She was going to be 20 years old and I thought it might be a good idea to take her out to eat to celebrate. I had no idea what the night had in store. I picked her up at the dorm and we headed out into the dark cold night to the Brandywine. We both ordered steak for dinner. We both ate a little, but spent more time holding hands and looking at each other across the table. I don’t remember what we talked about, but I’ll never forget that night. It was starting to become obvious that neither of us was going to eat much more. The conversation had dwindled to nothing. We just sat there, looking at each other, and the words just spilled out of my mouth, “How do you ask someone to marry you when you don’t have a ring?” Again, she didn’t pause before saying, “You just ask.” And so I did. I got down on one knee, took her hand in my hand, and asked, “Will you marry me?” She blushed, and her eyes had the look they had when we slow danced on that night several months before, and without missing a beat she said, “Yes!”
We realized we needed to let our families in on this. I wasn’t too worried about mine. I was going to be 24 in just a few weeks, getting married was something I knew my family would embrace, even if it hadn’t been discussed or expected. We went to my mom’s office in the morning and broke the news. There was a spontaneous party with her coworkers. I don’t remember telling my dad, but mom must have taken care of it for us. I have a vague memory of her making a phone call to him at work while we were in her office.
Telling Sara’s family was another concern. I’d only met her parents a few times. I had asked their daughter to marry me without talking to them about it first. We drove over to their house, about an hour away from school, and sat out in the driveway for a good 30 minutes trying to work up the courage to walk in and make our announcement. We finally took a deep breath, got out of the car, and made our way inside, only to find an empty house. The entire family was out picking up movies to watch from Blockbuster. By the time they returned home, we had chickened out. Pleasantries were had and we were soon watching the first feature of the night, which just happened to be Four Weddings and a Funeral. As the credits rolled, and people started getting up to stretch, grab some snacks, and get ready for the second movie, I managed to blurt out that Sara and I had something we wanted to talk to them about. I remember the room getting really quiet. I got even quieter when I told them that Sara and I wanted to get married. Sara’s brother, Daniel, finally broke the silence by asking if this was a joke because of the movie we’d just watched. I’m pretty sure her parents were mostly just shocked. We talked about marriage, and what it meant. Her dad kept asking me questions about marriage and what I thought marriage was about while trying to use allegories of boats to make his points. That night probably could have gone better, but it could have also gone much worse.
The next 8 months went by in a blur. The next thing we knew it was August 10, 1996. We stood in front of God, our families, and friends; declared our love and devotion to each other, and were pronounced man and wife. The next 14 years were filled with adventure, devotion, challenges, and even a few disappointments; but mostly they were filled with love; a love that culminated in the story that started its tale in this blog on June 19, 2010.
The picture above was taken two weeks after we found out that Miranda was on the way. We knew it would be the last camping picture with just the two of us...
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